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Wednesday, December 24, 2008

Questions for Tanzeem-e-Islami

There are some things that I don't understand about Tanzeem-e-Islami.


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Ahmad Bilal said...

Salam Alaikum,

My brother in Islam has a very good question. Lemme eradicate the confusion.
You said: "Firstly, if they think that the best way is that of the Prophet (S) why don't they follow this principle in their method of establishing the khilafat?"

Ans.:- I'm a member of Tanzeem-e-Islami. Infact, we are following the methodology as derived from the Seerah. If you take a look at the Seerah there had been few things to be idealized.
1st of all you have to have a concept,
1. A revolutionary Ideology (Tauheed)

Now you've got to spread this message through,
2. Ideology and its propagation

The source will be The Glorious Qur'an,
3. Propagating the idology through the Qur'an

4. Organizing a deciplined Jama'ah on the basis of Baya'h.(An organization having an army descipline of listen and obey)

5. Passive resistance/No retaliation even in self-defence (Kuffu Aediyakum)

6. Advance (To operate), i.e. To clash with the current system. (When you have a proposed power to operate)

Your 2nd Question:- "Secondly, in the khilafat the leader is elected by the knowledgeable people then (I don't know whether he was elected or not) why Dr. Aakif Saeed succeeded Dr. Israr as the Amir/leader of Tanzeem-e-Islami?"

Ans.:- As I got your question, I'll try to answer it accordingly insha ALLAH.
You've rightly stated that in Khilafah an ameer is elected through an electoral process, by taking advice of the people. The same method was adopted in this issue. A "Six Day Meeting" of the Multazim Rufaqa had been continuosly undergoing for deciding this issue. And at the end of the day Hafiz Akif Saeed Sb. was elected as our Ameer. And for your kind information, Dr. Israr Ahmed was intially not willing to accept this. But later on when he was told that in Sharia'h, being a son isn't a disqualification at all.

Note:- If you have any further question, feel free to ask.

Ahmad Bilal said...

Methodology of Tanzeem-e-Islami:-
We firmly believe that the theoretical and the practical guidance for reforming and revitalizing the Muslim Ummah, and specifically the correct methodology for bringing about an Islamic Revolution, can only be derived from the Seerah of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and not from any other source. Imam Malik (RA) has said that the latter part of this community will not be reformed except by following the same process through which its initial part was reformed. This means that the goal of establishing the domination of Islam can be achieved only by following the methodology of Prophet Muhammad (SAW), keeping in view the present-day conditions, and for this we must study the life of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and the manner of his struggle in detail.
He called people towards Islam, organized those who responded to his call, trained them in discipline and spiritual purification, made them pass through the stage of passive resistance in Mecca when they were not allowed to retaliate even in self-defense; it was only after the number was sufficient and a base was available in Medina that he took the initiative and challenged the Quraysh by blocking their trade route. The resulting armed conflict passed through many battles and finally led to the defeat of falsehood and the triumph of truth. The same methodology must be adopted today, using all the modern means of communication, dissemination, training, and organization that are available to us.
The title for this movement shall be nahi anil-munkar, i.e., the Islamic imperative to eradicate everything that is evil, wrong, unjust, or immoral. According to a well-known and oft-quoted tradition of Prophet Muhammad (SAW), there are three levels of this obligation depending on the availability of strength and resources, viz., eradicating evil with one’s hand (i.e., with force); eradicating evil with one’s tongue (i.e., through persuasion); and eradicating evil with one’s heart (i.e., by cultivating personal abhorrence against it). As long as the required strength is not available for us to carry out the highest level of nahi anil-munkar, we must continue to raise our voices against all un-Islamic practices that have become prevalent in Muslim societies. We must use all the available resources of mass communication to try and persuade the people in authority to eradicate these un-Islamic practices, and we must fulfill this duty to the best of our ability. However, once we have the necessary strength in terms of the number and training of committed individuals at our disposal, we shall move on to the highest stage of nahi anil-munkar and try to eradicate evil through force, i.e., by means of a popular resistance movement. We shall target a particular evil in society, and employ all the contemporary techniques of peaceful and non-violent agitation and civil disobedience to eradicate that evil, including street processions, public rallies, strikes, and sit-ins. We shall not damage any public or private property; we shall not attack anyone under any circumstances, but at the same time we shall be willing to lay down our own lives. Our willingness to sacrifice our own lives for the cause of Islam will be matched only by our firm refusal to hurt anyone or destroy anything.

For more details:-
In audio:-

Urdu Portable document:-

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

I have understood the answer to my second question, i.e. about succession but I dont agree with the method. It fulfills the first 2 requirements but not the third one.

1. Secret stage: where individuals who join the call are cultured in Islam and the da'wah.
2. Interaction stage: where the group openly calls the society to implement Islam and interacts with all levels of society in showing (intellectually) the superiority of Islam and exposing the reality of non-Islamic systems/practices. The objective in this stage is to win public opinion in favour of Islam.
3. Seeking nusrah: takig the da'wah to those who have material and otehr power in society, in order to win them and through that power to implement Islam comprehensively (by establishing the state).

The third stage in the method of Tanzeem-e-Islami is based on the Qiyas of Dr. Israr Ahmed from Surah al-Maidah, Chapter no. 5, verse no.33
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Apostle and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution
or crucifixion of the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world and a heavy
punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.
(Yusuf Ali Translation)

Ahmad Bilal said...

You said:- 'Seeking nusrah: takig the da'wah to those who have material and otehr power in society, in order to win them and through that power to implement Islam comprehensively (by establishing the state).
The third stage in the method of Tanzeem-e-Islami is based on the Qiyas of Dr. Israr Ahmed'

Answer:- Brother,
Where have you taken this term from ? I've told about 6 stages on which Tanzeem is proceeding. As far as Hizb methodology is concerned, as you stated this has been taken from the Seerah that during the da'wah we have to look for the nusrah of the armies, so as I've mentioned earlier, you can simply differentiate between the powers of ansaar and the now armies. There is no comparison whatsoever.
The Ansaar were without arms whereas the now armies are fully equiped.
The ansaar were spirtually purified and trained while on the other hand the now armies don't even practice Islam in their personal lives (Exceptions are always there).

The then enemy or you can say the counter forces were non-muslims (Quraysh) whereas now you have your own people standing against you who recite Kalima and offer prayers as well.

We believe that on the last stage, a popular mass movement (a non-violant) is highly recommended for seeking this goal otherwise it would be a clash between the masses if you go for an armed struggle similarly as the Pakistan Taliban are facing.

Ahmad Bilal said...


If you go in the details of Hizb methodology, you'll get to know a lots of qiyas there as well.

Qiyas is a part of the shari'ah widely used among the muslim ummah. This is adopted according to the situation. You never have the same situation and criteria all the time. Therefore, you have to adapt yourself according to the present situation.
The problem comes when we cross the boundaries and limits of the sharia'h. Within the boundaries you can do ijtehad and this is the principle of it.

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

Before the Prophet (S) preached the Ansaar were not purified. Their hearts were more tender as compared to Makkans.
Even if there is qiyas in HT, it is not applied in the method but Tanzeem applies Qiyas in its method.

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

The three points are the points which make up the method of HT.

ABUDi said...

salam alaikum...
@Ahmed Bilal...
nice to see u here...
u posed this question
'Where have you taken this term(nusrah) from ?'
well,.. Ansaar comes from the word nasr and ansaar means providers of nusrah so called as Saad bin Muadh (their leader) provided nusrah while the public provided the public opinion to establish the islamic state at madina which spread from spain to indonesia eventually...

ABUDi said...

"The Ansaar were without arms whereas the now armies are fully equiped.
The ansaar were spirtually purified and trained while on the other hand the now armies don't even practice Islam in their personal lives (Exceptions are always there)."
"the Ansaar were WITH arms ..they fought many wars... the Muhajirin dint bring arms with them to supply to Ansaar... they already had them.. that is why many wars were made possible to be fought..
Secondly, the Ansaar hadnt undergone the culturing process which the Muhajireen had undergone.. that is why Munafiqueen were amongst the Ansaar.. many of the Ansaar accepted Islam as soon as their leaders accepted it...
the society then completely fits into today...
the non-muslims,muslims(by name),muslims(momins) and munafiqeen were all present in madinah...
the Sunnah is for all times..
"and then there will be Khilafah ON THE METHOD OF PROPHETHOOD"

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

I agree.

ABUDi said...

Ahmad Bilal said...

Imad-u-Din Saqib,

If you read the Seerah, A Sahabi R.A (I'm forgetting his name) was sent to Madinah by the Prophet PBUH, on demand of the Ansaar (Bay'at-e-Uqba Saania), for teaching them Islam and Qur'an. If you would like to see a refrence I'll provide it later insha ALLAH.

As far as your 2nd statement is concerned, when it comes to methodology you reject Qiyas and when it comes to the details you are yourself fixing it wherever you like. Is this fair anyways ?

Ahmad Bilal said...

Abdullah Saqib,

You replied to my statement out of the context.

Before the Bad'r battle, it was a meeting between the Prophet S.A.W and the Companions R.A. All the Mohajireen had fully subscribed the Prophet S.A.W so had the Ansaar. But Huzoor S.A.W looked a lil bit confused at that time. Someone asked the cause of His confusion, He S.A.W didn't reply but took a glance towards the Ansaar. The Ansaar remembered about the agreement settled between the Prophet S.A.W and them that if in case Madina was attacked by the enemy, all the Ansaar would stand shoulder to shoulder with the Mohajreen.
It was not settled before Bad'r that if they fought against the enemy aggressively coming out of Madina what would be the stance of the Ansaar......

Ahmad Bilal said...

Abdullah Saqib,
Salam Alaikum,

'the Ansaar were WITH arms ..they fought many wars... the Muhajirin dint bring arms with them to supply to Ansaar... they already had them.. that is why many wars were made possible to be fought..'

'How many arms, horses and camels had the Ansaar and Mohajreen in Bad'r battle ? Only a few ? make a comparison now.

Ahmad Bilal said...

Abdullah Saqib,

Further more, The now armies are waged by the same enemy you are gonna be standing against in future.
Their arms are not their own property, rather state has given them. They have taken oath of obedience with the system in return to this.

They are funded by the taxes including usury. The fact at the ground is they are involved, rather supporting this interest based capitalism.
Whereas the then Ansaar had adopted purely divine guidance as soon as it arrived to them.

Compare now.

Ahmad Bilal said...

Let there arise from among you a band of people (i.e., a party) who invite people to all that is good, and enjoin the doing of all that is right and forbid the doing of all that is wrong. It is they who will attain true success.
(Syrah Aal-e-Imran-104)

Ahmad Bilal said...

Most of the Islamic movements have taken either to the bullet or to the ballet for establishing the Deen of Allah(SWT). The Tanzeem-e-Islami believes that an ideal Islamic state cannot be established by either of these methods, and we have to go back to the Seerah of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) for the guidance of the methodology of Iqamah Al-Deen. When we look at the Seerah, we find that the struggle of the Prophet (SAW) was revolutionary in nature. His struggle can be understood as having six phases. One phase naturally leads to the other. If we jump from one phase to the next without fulfilling the requirements of the former, we may not suceed. Following are the six phases of this struggle:

Da´wah (Calling people to Islam and Iman)
Tanzeem (Organization of those who respond)
Passive Resistance
Active Resistance
Challenge and Conflict
In the revolution brought about by Prophet Muhammad (SAW), the final phase of Conflict took the form of an armed struggle against the status quo. Under the present conditions, however, there is no need for an armed struggle; indeed such a struggle is not likely to succeed. The state and government are now recognized as two different entities, and the right of the citizens to bring about a change in the government and the established system is now an accepted democratic right, as long as they do not indulge in violence or rebellion against the state.

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

I can give you the name of the sahabi. It was Hadhrat Mussab bin Umair (RA). However, he was sent after the pledges of al-Aqabah in which the Prophet (S) sought nusrah (protection) from the leaders of Yathrib. I am not against Qiyas but I think that for those things that are given by the Quran or Sunnah, there is no need for Qiyas. I dont know whether there's any policy of HT which is based on Qiyas but as I said I am not against Qiyas.

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

You yourself have written that the Prophet (S) had done an agreement with the Ansar saying that they should protect the Prophet (S). That was nusrah. Also, as Dr. Aakif Saeed said (and I agree with him on that point) that you cannot compare the incident at Badr because that was a situation brought about by Allah even though the Prophet (S) had no intention of it. He only intended to threaten the caravan of Abu Sufyan (RA).

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

You need to understand the method of HT as it is non-violent. The members of HT will keep on preaching until someone who has authority (such as the army) will come to realise that Islam is the best system of government. After that, the army will tell the leader to resign and the leader wont be able to do anything as he will have nothing to stop them with. This was demonstrated when the president of Pakistan cancelled his order of sending the ISI chief due to the objection of the chief of army. After the leader goes, HT will appoint a khalifa.

Ahmad Bilal said...


You are quiet right in saying that where there the Qur'an and Sunnah are guiding us deliberately and , at one after another step subsequently, we don't need to comprehend ourselves what should be the process of revolution.
But when the circumstances and ground realities are different and you don't have the same like enemy at the front, the strategy will be different accordingly. The strategy is set on merit basis.

Let's take an example of election process for Caliph.
You know in the time of Sahaba R.A, there was a tribal society where Caliphs were appointed by the councels of the leaders of tribe. And some extra precausionary measures were also taken in case of sustaining the leadership of the Quraysh. Because the then arabs couldn't be agreed upon a person out of Quraysh.
And there was also a gradation among the Sahaba R.A. [ 1-Ashra Mubashara.... 2-Mohajireen.... 3-Ashaab-e-Badar,...4-Ashab-e-Bayt-e-Rizwan and so on....].
Under these criterions an election for khalifah was held.
Somehow, Will you adopt the same policy now ? Absolutely not. Because the situation is different. Generally this isn't a tribal society neither there's any gradation among the people now. Everybody is considered to be equal. We don't have a concept of certain family leadership even.

I hope you got my point till now. If something has left, you can me..
jazak ALLAH

Ahmad Bilal said...

Imad-u-Din Saqib,

To whom you are considering a non-violant strategy, the world calls it a dictatorial stunt for grabbing the power. And there are always doors open for negative propagandas against such policies. Anyways, we were talking about the Tanzeem's methodology in this forum.

Ahmad Bilal said...

Brother Imad-u-Din,

By the way, do you think the enemy is that fool so that he would appoint a person who hasn't undergone the process of proper mind-set training ?

Do you think an Army Gen. can alone turn the table over ? I mean you are hoping that an army gen. has always got an independent view ?

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

The example you have given is not from the life of the Prophet (S) but from that of the sahaba. The enemy would not be foolish enough to appoint such a man but after proving to the General and the army, he will finally accept it. The General would also need the support of the army.

Raj_Jal said...

You are Irritating us....
Let me ask u ppl one thing?
Are u Comparing Tanzeem's Methode with Prophet(P.B.U.H) or Hizb...
Let Decide it first then we can resolve the question of Brother Imad... and plz dont corelate Tanzeem with Hizb... Compare it from Seerah of Prophet(P.B.U.H)...

Ahmad Bilal said...

Raj Jal Brother,

If it irritates you then you shouldn't be reading this post. When you yourself take an example from the party and present Hizb as a role model party, then why shouldn't I comparing both the parties with the Seerah. Nobody is perfect after the Prophet S.A.W, neither we are the Sahaba.

Ahmad Bilal said...

Imad-u-Din Saqib,
Salam Alaikum,

If the Sahaba R.A aren't the role model and Khilafat alaa Minhaj-u-Nabuvva isn't the light from which we have to take our guidance then all we're doing is no wonder un-necessary.
At the time of Prophet PBUH, there was no need of electing any other caliph, The Prophet PBUH was himself a caliph of the Muslims, appointed by ALLAH S.W.T.
That need arose later on, when there was the period of Sahaba R.A.

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

I am comparing it with HT because I have found that it is the same as that of the Prophet (S).

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

The election is a totally different thing. I am talking about establishment.

Ahmad Bilal said...


I think we are turning away of the discussion. We'd better leave this discussion here and continue doing what we are on. When you find something against the shari'ah boundaries in our methodology, we gonna be talking about that insha ALLAH.

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

Okay! If you say so!

fadhal said...


In Islam there are ideas which actually need a method to practicalise. For example Salah remains a theory until it is prayed , and the method of prayer will also be a prefixed way wherein you perform the Niyah, the ruka and the sujud.

And if you perform the sajda before the ruku then the salah is invalid. The method for salah is almost the same according to all the ulema who have Ijtihad (deduction of islamic rulings)except for minute differences in the branches of the rulings of salah.

Now if some one who doesnt know how to pray comes up and does some awkward acts towards the qibla such as holding the palms crossed like the mushriks then says taht this is salah, you will obviously reply that you may be sincere in your effort but this is not salah. Salah has a particular method and straying even a bit will lead the salah to be invalid.

This is exactly what needs to be understood here. Khilafah remains a theory until practicalised. And practically working to bring into reality cannot be from the aql like the muslim who stands with his palms toghther towards teh qibla thinking that this is salah. And also if by chance even if some one comes out to be succesful in his attempt to reestablish the khilafah but by using the aql (mind) to put forth the method then he certainly has completed one obligation but gaining the wrath of allah since the method of reestablishing the islamic state and the khilafah is to be derived from the quran and the sunnah and not from the aql.

The prophet established the islamic state and from his sunnah we see many activities he undertook in doing this. Many groups claim to do this today but unfortunately many of them do not actually have a correct method.

The method has to be derived by ijtihad and not be aql. The prophet did emphasise on having the khilafah and not living with out an imam(khalifa) and he also established the islamic state but he didnt tell in words that this is how a state is established.

Now to understand in todays realilty as to how do we reestablsih the islamic state we perform ijtihad. And it is a fard to perfrom ijtihad in this case since the method from the sunnah is Zanni (speculative). We understand our realities (manatul hukm) and then deduce the ahkam from the quran and sunnah (istinbaat). If we do not have an ijtihad where in we precisely put forth our steps and their detailed daleel then we will be sinful.

Tanzeeme islami does not has any ijtihad unfortunately. They are sincere but have not done ijtihad for understanding the metholdogy. Further their current method which is invalid is also wrong practically.

the first step is culturing which is what many say including hte ones who have done ijtihad but culturing with what. Do we have teach them hadeeth or politics or warfare ? Remember we are not making a building where we just place bricks upon bricks. IT will fall down if we do that! we need a strong foundation before doing that.

Tanzeeme islami has a very vague method and which is invalid and not based on ijtihad.

The steps they give in establsihing the khilafah are vague . For eg? what is hte constitution of the khilafah state the tanzeem is working for. what is the economic system of the islamic state and so on. these details are ought to be known by each member of Tanzeem otherwise they havent been cultured.

A few points to always remember when assesing some one who is working for islam
1. the solution to the problems of muslims societys - it should be clear and not vague .
for eg some people say that we need to follow quran and sunnah and so on ..this is not clear

2. the method that they propose should be based on ijtihad

3. The method should be detailed
and should not contradict the quran and sunnah.

Tanzeem no doubt is sincere but they are not moving on the correct methodology and they will not attain the pleasure of allah.

As for the secong question

We need to understand that in shara the concept of baya has a definite meaning and the baya is given to only and only the khalifa and no one else. All other baya'a are not from islam.

In tanzeem you are supposed to give the baya to the ameer of the group. THe ameer of a group is appointed and nominated or elected but it cannot be by baya since the baya is for hte khalifa only. We know that hte prophet did not take the baya from many people in mecca but he made the baya a fard in madina and all the hadith that are quoted to emphasise upon baya are from madina and not mecca.

so this is where tanzeem goes wrong again.

further, mr akif is not the khalifa but the ameer of tanzeem and the ameer of a group can be appointed by any method.

The Khalifa it is true that he should be appointed by the consent of the people and that is what we call as the elections.

I hope your doubts have been cleared.


Ahmad Bilal said...

Salam Alaikum Brother,

Alhamdulillah, we have a bit knowledge of how should be the economic, social and political system.

You please take your way and I go my way. I don't wanna develop any controversy between HT and the Tanzeem anymore, because I consider both the methodologies persmissible. Neverthless, there are certain differences. Keep working for bringing a change. With the passage of time you'll be knowing more aspects of this revolutionary process insha ALLAH.

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

When I said, "Okay! If you say so!". I forgot to mention that I'm still open for discussion for anyone who wants to.

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

I have to agree with fadhal.

Ahmad Bilal said...


Salam Alaikum brother,

I know you have to agree with him, since you've got no other option being in Hizb.

But in Tanzeem, we can have our say and suggestions.

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

Please keep in mind that I am not a member of Hizb-ut-Tahrir neither I have attended any function/meeting of them.

Ahmad Bilal said...

Question:- By adopting nonviolence as part of your methodology, aren’t you violating clear injunctions of the Qur’an regarding qital as well as the Prophetic Sunnah? If Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and his companions went to war against the enemies of Islam, isn’t this idea of nonviolence an unacceptable innovation in Islam?

Answer:- In the history of humanity, the practice of nonviolence as a strategy for resistance and opposition is a very recent phenomenon. During the time of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) - and for several hundred years after him - warfare was the only possible means for a political revolution or a basic transformation in social structures. However, the chances of the success of nonviolent methods have steadily improved during the last hundred years or so. In the twenty-first century, nonviolence is destined to become even more effective and sophisticated, making warfare look much like a dinosaur whose time has long past.

Let us look at the religious and ethical aspects of this issue. In Islam, warfare is always a means to an end, never an end in itself, and the taking of a human life is always an exception to the general rule of protecting and saving lives. In situations where the same end can be achieved by violent and nonviolent methods, the latter is clearly preferable over the former. Despite the emphasis on qital in the Qur’an and Hadith, there is nothing in these sources that would preclude or prohibit the adoption of nonviolence as both ethics and strategy.

We know that Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was a kind, lenient, and gentle human being; he was sent by Allah (SWT) as a “mercy to the worlds.” If such a man fought battles, it was only because there was no alternative to warfare in seventh-century Arabia. Furthermore, the Prophet (SAW) and his followers themselves set an example for us when they practiced strict nonviolence for several years in Makkah. It is well known that Muslims were ridiculed, opposed, and persecuted by the elders of Quraysh, and Muslim slaves were frequently tortured and killed. Despite this, the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) did not allow Muslims to carry out any retaliation against their tormentors; he only asked them to endure with patience while keeping their faith and continuing their struggle. The Muslim practice of patience and strict non-retaliation during the 12 years in Makkah provide us with a brilliant example of how to resist evil without causing injury.

It is true that the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) changed his strategy after the migration to Medina, and when Allah (SWT) through revelation gave Muslims the permission to fight back against their oppressors. However, the social and historical context must be kept in mind as we try to understand the battles in which early Muslims participated. From the Islamic viewpoint, warfare is not an absolute good; it is only a relative good. It is important to remember that there is nothing inherently desirable in war from a moral and religious viewpoint. Killing for the sake of killing is no act of virtue by any standard. As such, it is only the end for which one fights, and the conditions which one upholds while doing so, that makes fighting morally good or bad. Qital was made mandatory upon Muslims because it was the only possible method to serve the cause of Islam in the particular social and historical context of seventh-century Arabia. The Prophet (SAW) led the Muslims in many battles; he had to do this in order to protect his community, to defeat his enemies, and to establish Islam as a historical reality. If the establishment of Islam were possible without resorting to war, there is no doubt that this is what the Prophet (SAW) would have preferred.

In this context, it is important to dispel the common misunderstanding that nonviolent struggles are somehow “easier” than armed combat. On the contrary, it is fair to say that nonviolence is not for the fainthearted. It requires extraordinary courage, patience, and discipline to stand one’s ground in front of guns, tanks, and bulldozers. While it is relatively easy to take the life of a much hated opponent in a moment of rage, it calls for a great deal of self-control to allow oneself to be beaten to a pulp and not raise one's hand in self-defense. Indeed, the use of nonviolence does not guarantee that one will remain safe and protected. In the final analysis, there is probably equal risk of losing one’s life or limb in both kinds of conflict. Nonviolence, therefore, is not an attempt to run away from danger or confrontation. The imperatives of the Qur'an and Hadith that encourage Muslims to remain steadfast in times of conflict and to endure physical pain with patience remain as applicable in cases of nonviolent resistance as they were in the original context of warfare.

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

You may have misunderstood me or started a new question?
The Prophet (S) did not establish the Islamic State in Madinah through warfare. He kept on preaching and when the Madinites accepted Islam and invited him again and again, Allah gave him permission to migrate and then he migrated and established an Islamic state in Madinah.

Ahmad Bilal said...

Brother Imad,

My intentions are to pass on the ideology, methodology and their ultimate outcomes to others, which I consider the best for myself. Because a true momin always wants the same for others which he desires for himself.

I'm not claiming that I'm a complete momin, rather I'm trying to copy the features of a true momin.

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...


Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

This is a long comment that was emailed to me.
Regarding your first question:
( I wish you had pointed out the things which go against SUNNAH)

QUESTION :Firstly, if they think that the best way is that of the Prophet (S) why don't they follow this principle in their method of establishing the khilafat?

1. Khilafat was the result of a systematic struggle in that pagan society. Every aspect of that process/ struggle is recorded in Quran and history. That process started from individual and ended up as a triumph of a Hisb-Ullah against Kuffar. Throughout that process, Salvation( Najat) in the Aakhirat was most important. Which was subject to the obedience to the Prophet ( peace be upon Him), who was training all the individuals in His Jamaat. Hence whether it was the ruthless and torturous killing of Aal-e-Yasser, Toruture of Sahabas by their Kuffar masters or the Prophet himself, the command of Allah was 'KUFFU AIDIAKUM', (i.e. keep your hands tied). Throughout the Makkan period of 10 years, he kept giving the Sahabas tidings of Jannat to the victims and telling them about the sufferings of previous Ummat's strugglers.

2. Throughout that period he was hammering the message of Tauhid ( Nazaria or Idealogy) as opposed to paganism in that society. Due to this message ( Dawa) , the sahabas who were gathering around him, he trained them through whatever was being revealed of Quran and in turn they also did the same, i.e., Dawa to others through Quran and sayings of the Prophet. The Prophet was advising his companions to have patience against hardships and was transforming them into a very disciplined Jamaat irrespective of the number game. The quality and not the quantity of the mumineen was important. Around hundred mu'mins were the sum total of ten years struggle of the Best Prophet of humanity.

3. So, for the establishment of Just Islamic order, He propagated ( gave Dawat) Nazaria Tauhid ( Nazaria ki Dawat), then the ones who gathered, he trained them in Deen( Tarbiat) and through practical sufferings and patience ( Sabr) and " KUFFU AIDIAKUM", he transformed those individual mu'mins into an organized ( Munazzam) Jamaat.


4. All the Shuhadas earned their place independent of establishment of Khilafat. This is the beauty of Islam, that your salvation is not tied to the final result, i.e., establishment of Khilafat. Your deeds till the time of your death decides your salvation. Whether you are a slave like Yasser or a noble like Hamza ( may Allah be pleased with them).

During this process note the following:

a. He did not stop the torture of Yasser (RAW); the Sahabas did not revenge the Shahadas of Aal-e-Yasser. KUFFU-AIDIYAKUM. Remember, some Sahabas could have easily murdered the killers in the darkness of night if not in daylight.

b. They kept praying in Haram while the idols were all around them. If One
Hazrat Ibrahim Alaihi Assalam could break so many idols, why not so many Sahabas including Hazrat Umar (RAW).

c. The abuses/tortures he (Alaihissalam),Abu Bakr and companions ( May Allah be pleased with all of them) faced, how many fist fights and retaliations took place during those ten years. This is one sided SABR, also a very difficult form of training for the sake of Allah.

d. To the three torturous years of Sha'ab Abi Talib against children, males, females, young and old, what was the Prophets reaction during and after. Sabr and Dawat.

e. Close to the end of 10 years in Makkah, a hundred people could have played havoc against a population of few thousand, had they decided to pick up arms and placed themselves in strategic positions around the hills of Makkah. So no armed struggle yet.

f. Also note, that while encouraging every muslim to know certain basic fighting skills and physical fitness, no military training of the time was imparted by the Prophet in Makkah. Whatever they knew from before continued. That is, his main focus of training was based on Nazaria Tauhid.

Regarding acquisition of power, please note the following:

a. The first nusrat/ offer from Qureish leadership came through his beloved Uncle Abu Talib, regarding Marriage to whomsoever he wished, whatever money he wanted, and to be made king, why did he refuse since everyone in Makkah already recognized him as ALSADIQ & AMEEN. The way to total change requires your trained Jamaat based on Tauhid.

b. In later years, when he gave dawat to one powerful tribal head visiting Makkah, the head recognized the potential of the prophet (SAW) and his message. The Chief offerred him his support, but, in return he wanted power sharing while asking him to compromise on the governace based on Tauhid, once dominance is achieved. The Prophet rejected that offer/ support because such compromise on Nazaria was not acceptible.

c. Hijrat to Habsha was before Hijrat e Madina, Najjashi was very accomodative and some
believe he even converted to Islam. The Prophet did not go to Habsha for nusrat to conquer

Whether to leave your own land and go to distant territories for bringing Islamic Change:

a. The prophet was compelled to leave Makkah only after it became dangerous to make
DAWA in Makkah.

b. At Taif, the territory was even more hostile than Makkah, so he returned, again no retaliation, even through the Angel.

c. The Prophet waited after Bait-e-aqaba Saani, since his Muqree has already created
a Jamaat/convertees who were comparable in number to Sahabas in Makkah. It had become life threatening to further live in Makkah.

His first preference was Makkah for change. It was only when life for mu'mins became dangerous did he start looking for other places.


1. For establishing an Islamic state for Khilafat, Your first preference is where you live. Only if it becomes impossible to work for Dawa, you go for Hijrat.

Tanzim-e-Islami feels that the duty of Pakistani muslims is to go for change towards Khilafat in Pakistan first. If working for that becomes impossible, then the Jamaat comes to the stage of physical Hijrat. Similarly everyone will work in his/her own region for establishment of Khilafat. Wherever, it is established first, will the other regions try to associate themselves as Jamaats to them. Amir Tanzim Islami did go physically to Mullah Ummar, I guess in 1997, but Mulla Ummar was not accepting the region of Pakistan for Bai'at en masse.

2. For the process of change to Khilafat, It is your own munazzam Jamaat on which you rely for sacrifices/ giving blood and is the main instrument of change to Islamic Order. Your assessment as to when is the right time to go from Nahi Anil Munkir Bil Lissam to Nahi Anil Munkar Bil Yad, it would be the preparedness of your own munazzam jamaat and not
the no. of disorganized supporters who flock around when the time for change is near.

IN Madina,

1. His first steps were to consolidate the newly expanded Jamaat, by Muakhat among Muhajirin and Ansar, and neutralize the threat of Jews and kafir tribes around Madina through pacts.

2. The Prophet(SAW) now sent groups of Sahabas to Challenge the Kuffar trade Caravans and make them and their routes insecure. They were still told not to fight or attack them.

3. Allah's commandmant also came that now you are permitted to fight the ones who stand in the way of Allah. No more Kuffu Aidiakum. Thus followed the GHUZWA'ATS, i.e., the armed struggle started.

4. Remember, it was after Ghuzwai Khandaq that the Prophet (SAW) declared that from now onwards, the Kuffars will not attack you. But also note that during the tough times of
this Ghuzwa, that some Sahabas were asking where are the promises of good times.

5. Remember also, it was the time of Sulah Hudaibia, at which Allah called it Fateh Mubeen.

6. It is agreed upon that declaration of the ALFATAH in Sura Nasr was indication of Fattah Makkah. Quran also calls Makkah as UMM UL QURA, and whether it was in the past or
present no struggle is considered complete unless UMM UL QURA is conquered.
Hence the struggle for change/ Inqelab/ Khilafat got completed at that time only and Madina was part of the process of change before Fatah Makkah.

7. After Fattah Makkah, hordes of people entered Islam, and after this the Prophet (SAW)
concentrated on expansion of Inqelab to territories not under the influence of Islam and also outside Jaziratul Arab, i.e., what we call in Tanzim-e-Islami
TASDEER-E-INQELAB. Although, the time of completion of Deen was also announced in Quran, thus indicating that Rehlat of the Prophet (SAW) from this world was near.

Hence, from the Sunnah Tanzim-e-Islami has as its last three stages; Challenge the Kufr
(IQDAM), armed struggle/clash (TASADUM), and after success expansion of Inqelab/Khilafat (TASDEER-E-INQELAB).

Challenge & ARMED STRUGGLE in a muslim society:

The decision as when to start these phases will depend upon the level of preparedness
( Iman and Nasm) of the Jamaat, and the level of awareness of the general population, which will again depend upon the work of Dawat done by the Jamaat. This decision will be taken by the Ameer, who is assisted by different levels of Shura. Regarding the level of preparedness of the members and Jamaat, there are several feedback mechanisms in place, which are reviewed in every meeting of central Shura every 4 months.

Regarding armed struggle in a muslim society, Dr. Israr Ahmed, the Idealogue of Tanzim-e-Islami has pointed out the following differences:

1. The Prophet (SAW) was dealing with non-muslims whereas we in muslim societies are dealing with muslims; both practicing and non-practicing, at least on individual level. The Govt./country may be following an amalgum of Kufr and Islam ( for some Nizam e kufr), but the individuals are not Kafirs. Hence the issue of Qatl e Nahaq also arises.

2. The ratio of material power at the time of Prophet (SAW) was only in number and of course Iman. Both sides had similar material resources, i.e., humans, horses, swords etc. Whereas now the governments have Jets,bombs, tanks, missiles, standing armed forces, etc. as opposed to just guns or maybe rocket launchers (in a very limited quantity). Therefore, the ruthless balance in power is very heavily tilted towards the state machinery. Every Commander has to consider these aspects also before initiating an armed struggle, besides the level of Iman and preparedness of the Jamaat.

3. Political structures during the last century has evolved in a manner that the state and govt. are now two entities, i.e., you can stand against your govt. and yet will not be considered anti-state or ' Baghi '.

Hence, an approach of mass public demonstration to jam the system has acquired several
successes in recent human history. This is what Tanzim e Islami professes for final change in a muslim society. Of course, once the system runners see the seriousness of such system jammers, they will come with full force and that is where the committed and disciplined workers will have to lay down their lives, but will not retaliate. These massive shahadas has a limit itself on the tyranical forces. Also, the rest of the nation's resolve will also change and will side with the movement, provided that Jamaat is recognized as sincere and has worked for dawa in that society. We have seen this effect, after Lal Masjid event, although few in number and relying mostly on female students, Still after armed forces generally one sides military action, the whole nation was moved and even secular liberals also condemned govt. actions, and later became one major reason for Musharraf-PMLQ defeat.

Tanzim e Islami's structure is based on Bai'at, which we know is also based on Sunnah and Islamic history of struggles.

( these explanations are from a member of Tanzim e Islami and not a party response, there
could be flaws)

"MANHAJ INQELAB E NABVI" By Dr. Israr Ahmed in Urdu, which can be acquired from
Tanzim e Islami Offices in several cities.

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

I disagree with only one point which leads me to disagree with most of the points.
That point is that the first Islamic state was established in Madinah as the Prophet (S) even made a constitution in Madinah (before conquest of Makkah).
After establishing the state in Madinah he (S) focused on Makkah and other surroundings such as increasing his influence in the Beduoins.

Ahmad Bilal said...

Brother Imad,

Qur'an names 'Umm-ul-Qura' to Makkah for more than 2 times. (If you ask for the reference I'll provide you insha ALLAH).

I always admitted that the then Madina was a separate entity indeed. At some extent they had the freedom to freely move and to make laws by their own. But it was a mixed community. There were non-muslims as well and they had the accords to defend Madina if it was attacked from outside. But the then muslims hadn't have that liberty to count on their own because there were mushrik and jew tribes in the surrounding.

Madina did have it's identity but it hadn't formed as a model Islamic State very after the Hijrah. Therefore, an Islamic Constitution and its details are given in Surah Taubah which is the last surah in accending order. And it was revealed after fatah Makkah.

If Madina had become an Islamic State very after the Hijrah, then the Prophet PBUH would have started to send deligations outside the arab for da'wah. But He PBUH did not until they were recognised in Sulah Hudabiya.

Further more, the then arab was shaped like as Makkah was considered as their capital. Therefore, all the mushrik tribes in arab or outside it had been putting their idols to worship there.

Lastly, I would bring in your notice that aayah 'Jaa'al Haqu Wazahaqal Baatil, Innal Baatila Kaana Zahuqa'. The Prophet PBUH was reciting this aayah at the time of conquer of Makkah.

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

I slightly agree with you but I'm still not sure whether Makkah was the first Islamic state or Madinah.

Ahmad Bilal said...

Surah Al-Nur (Madani – 55)
Allâh has promised those among you who believe, and do righteous good deeds, that He will certainly grant them succession to (the present rulers) in the earth, as He granted it to those before them, and that He will grant them the authority to practise their religion, that which He has chosen for them (i.e. Islâm). And He will surely give them in exchange a safe security after their fear (provided) they (believers) worship Me and do not associate anything (in worship) with Me. But whoever disbelieved after this, they are the Fâsiqûn (rebellious, disobedient to Allâh).

It is being said in this aaya that Khilafah will be grandted to those among you who do righteous deeds. And note that it's a Madani Surah, reveled in 6th Hijri.

It means that Khilafah had not been established till then.

Muslim said...

This is how Tafseer Ibn e Kathir explains the above verse.
Its good not to explain things out of mind for the sake of proving one's opinion. This discussion was much helpful, but I skipped many parts. Under Last message , I found terrible response. Brother Ahmad please double check your words before explaining any point.

I may not reply , but just shared Tafseer of verse that you quoted really out of the way.

May Allah give me hadiya and to other truth seekers (Ameen)

yasir said...

meesaq-e-madina was not an islamic constitution but a treaty of the safeguard of madina with the jews.
the first islamic state was formed after the conquest of Makkah.

Baiyat is the only way of formation of a hizb in the whole of the muslim history.
from muhammad (s.a.w.) to thereek-e-shaheedain.
any organization of muslims whether khilafah or a tanzeem or jamaat, islam gives this way. ALL aothers are not haram but this is the way of islam.

Imad-ud-din Saqib said...

You yourself have written that the Prophet (S) had done an agreement with the Ansar saying that they should protect the Prophet (S). That was nusrah. Also, as Dr. Aakif Saeed said (and I agree with him on that point) that you cannot compare the incident at Badr because that was a situation brought about by Allah even though the Prophet (S) had no intention of it. He only intended to threaten the caravan of Abu Sufyan (RA).

ABUDi said...

"The Ansaar were without arms whereas the now armies are fully equiped.
The ansaar were spirtually purified and trained while on the other hand the now armies don't even practice Islam in their personal lives (Exceptions are always there)."
"the Ansaar were WITH arms ..they fought many wars... the Muhajirin dint bring arms with them to supply to Ansaar... they already had them.. that is why many wars were made possible to be fought..
Secondly, the Ansaar hadnt undergone the culturing process which the Muhajireen had undergone.. that is why Munafiqueen were amongst the Ansaar.. many of the Ansaar accepted Islam as soon as their leaders accepted it...
the society then completely fits into today...
the non-muslims,muslims(by name),muslims(momins) and munafiqeen were all present in madinah...
the Sunnah is for all times..
"and then there will be Khilafah ON THE METHOD OF PROPHETHOOD"

Heart4u_02 said...

Which sahabi wrote meesaq-e-madina?

imaduddinsaqib said...

No idea!

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